Minette Riordan: Have you ever said to yourself, “I don’t have enough time?”
Brad Dobson: “I am so overwhelmed.”
Minette Riordan: “I need more clarity.”
Brad Dobson: “I don’t know how to do this.”
Minette Riordan: “My to do list is miles long.”
Brad Dobson: “I’m exhausted.”
Minette Riordan: “There’s got to be a better way.”
Brad Dobson: Hi there, I’m Brad.
Minette Riordan: And I’m Minette. Not only have we said all these things ourselves, but we’ve heard our community of creative entrepreneurs say them over and over again.
Brad Dobson: That’s why we created the Structure and Flow Podcast. I’m structure.
Minette Riordan: And I’m flow, and this is the productivity podcast for creative entrepreneurs.
Brad Dobson: We believe that doing more and working harder are not the solution to your productivity challenges.
Minette Riordan: We believe in more play, more fun, and more profit. Join us as we explore the interplay between structure and flow so that we can bring more grace and ease to your creative business.
Brad Dobson: Hi, and welcome to episode 120 of Structure and Flow. Today we are talking about diet and productivity, specifically four surprising ways your diet impacts your productivity.
Minette Riordan: And our working other title for this was, “Are Carbs Killing Your Productivity?” We’ll talk about that, too.
Brad Dobson: Yeah, that’s a tough one.
Minette Riordan: It’s one of Brad’s favorite topics.
Brad Dobson: Yeah, don’t get me started, or do get me started. I’m not sure.
Minette Riordan: I don’t know, we’ll see where the conversation goes.
Brad Dobson: Cool stuff. So, let’s get underway with the quote which Minette found. I like this one. Ron Friedman, I have no idea who Ron Friedman is.
Minette Riordan: Oh, he’s an awesome productivity expert. If you don’t know who he is, go check him out. Ron Friedman.
Brad Dobson: Cool. He says, “Food has a direct impact on our cognitive performance, which is why a poor decision at lunch can derail an entire afternoon.” Well of course, we know that if you’re gonna sit there at lunch and have four martinis. But what if you decide to have the chili cheese fries and a full sugared coke?
Minette Riordan: Yum, yep.
Brad Dobson: And let me see, what else could we come up with?
Minette Riordan: I was just thinking burger and fries or Mexican food, man. That one’s a good one too, like enchiladas and rice and beans.
Brad Dobson: How about a piece of cake?
Minette Riordan: Well, hopefully that’s after you’ve actually had some lunch as well. Usually the piece of cakes are breakfast, right? Or the muffin, or the [crosstalk 00:02:21].
Brad Dobson: The piece of cake is at breakfast. I’m not sure what diet you’re on.
Minette Riordan: The Bill Cosby diet.
Brad Dobson: Anyways, so … what? Oh, you got me there. What is the Bill Cosby diet?
Minette Riordan: So in one of his routines, I can’t remember his wife was off somewhere and it’s his job to feed the kids breakfast, and he said cake for breakfast. Chocolate cake because it has all the food groups. It has flour, and milk, and eggs for protein. So from his perspective, feeding the kids chocolate cake was a very viable breakfast.
Brad Dobson: Got you.
Minette Riordan: And that was 40 years ago, so things have changed just a little bit.
Brad Dobson: Maybe. So I am a happy keto-er, which means I follow a ketogenic diet. So, I eat very little carbohydrate. In the past, I have eaten a lot of carbohydrate, and then get very addicted to it but what it does for me, is it gives me massive crashes. When we say carbohydrate-
Minette Riordan: So, you lost the conversation there. When you eat carbohydrates, you have massive crashes-
Brad Dobson: Yes, sorry.
Minette Riordan: Which you no longer have if you’re following a ketogenic diet.
Brad Dobson: That’s right, that’s right. Dear listener, we are not gonna tell you what to eat.
Minette Riordan: We are not. It says right here in our notes. We are not nutritionists or dieticians, but we are gonna share with you what’s working for us.
Brad Dobson: Exactly. So like I said, in my past, another life, I spent a lot of time eating a lot of bread, a lot of pasta, rice, potatoes, beer, sugary stuff, everything like that.
Minette Riordan: Cookies, Brad loves cookies.
Brad Dobson: Yeah, I grew up with homemade cookies, and I don’t know that-
Minette Riordan: Everyday after school.
Brad Dobson: Yeah, you can take the cookies out of the boy, but you … no, I don’t know.
Minette Riordan: I don’t know where you’re going with that one.
Brad Dobson: Anyways, all that stuff just gives me giant insulin spikes, and those result in big crashes for me, and clearly that’s a productivity loss.
Minette Riordan: Yes, it is and so in doing research for this episode, there are quite a few great articles I’m gonna list to a couple of in the show notes from Forbes and Harvard Business Review, and one study that was done by NBC news. So, lots of different sources and there’s so much science about this, you could probably actually mention the Good Calories Bad Calories book here as well. But there were really only, not only. I’m sure there are many more, but there are four very specific ways that what you’re putting in your body can have a negative or adverse impact on your productivity. So the first one, as Brad was talking about, was carbohydrates.
Minette Riordan: In the press a lot, there’s been a lot of talk about sugar, and the impact of sugar on your diet. But the thing is, it creates a couple of different things. The first is, eating the wrong food for you. So you may be somebody that thrives on carbohydrates, but maybe there’s something else. Like I had one friend that was allergic to pinto beans. Like I grew up in Texas. We ate pinto beans all the time. I grew up in south Texas, in San Antonio, Texas. So, I couldn’t even imagine not being able to eat refried beans with my Mexican Food. But it’s that noticing for me, so I’ve been gluten free for … since the early ’90s. Long before it was trendy and popular. And what I found was that when I eat wheat filled products, and especially when I eat them in combination with dairy, I woke up with a massive hangover the next morning.
Brad Dobson: So, not productive.
Minette Riordan: So not productive, and I would go through my day feeling so foggy. So, imagine you eat pizza at lunch, and then you wonder why at three o’clock in the afternoon your ass is dragging, right? It’s because your body cannot process the food fast enough to bring your energy back. So food is fuel, there’s no doubt about that. You are what you eat, there is so many cliches out there. And again, we’re not nutritionists or dieticians. It’s about finding what the diet is that works for you. Veganism is super on trend and popular right now as well. It works great for some people. Does not work for me. I need the protein.
Brad Dobson: But I think it’s important to reiterate, it’s what works for you.
Minette Riordan: Yes.
Brad Dobson: And so there are people who try different ways of eating and they just don’t work for them, and your body will give you those signals. It will tell you-
Minette Riordan: If you listen.
Brad Dobson: But you have to listen.
Minette Riordan: You definitely have to listen.
Brad Dobson: And there are lots of different foods, and lot of different ways of eating, but your body will tell you what you need.
Minette Riordan: If you’re eating, and within an hour you’re starving, like the old joke about Chinese food. You eat Chinese food and an hour later you’re hungry, which I personally never found that one to be true for me. But the reason that your brain gets foggy and that you feel tired is because you’re not fueling it properly. So, spending the time to figure that out. So I’m a huge fan of the Whole30 Program as a way of figuring it out. Whole30 is not intended to be a lifestyle change or a diet for life. It’s about let’s figure out what will nourish and support your body the most. So, within days, you start to feel a clarity of mind that maybe you haven’t felt in a really, really long time. So, finding some kind of form fasting is another way.
Brad Dobson: Sure.
Minette Riordan: Spending some time just clearing out your system so that you can actually pay attention and tune in a little bit better to what works for you.
Brad Dobson: That’s said, you know if you’re eating straight up refined carbohydrates like sugar. If you drink sodas with real sugar in them.
Minette Riordan: And if you eat the bagel for breakfast and the sandwich for lunch, and the pizza for dinner …
Brad Dobson: They’re pretty sure to give you those insulin spikes no matter who you are. And your body and your mind is gonna struggle with that.
Minette Riordan: And then you know, we may have some people on the other extreme, and this is the second reason that what you’re eating can impact your productivity, is that you’re not eating enough, and you’re letting your blood sugar get really low. And it really impacts your ability to focus and to make decisions. There have been some amazing studies, I think it was the Harvard Business Review article that I read, that talks specifically about research done in companies. Where when people weren’t eating breakfast or a healthy lunch, they completely lost their ability to focus, and they became super unproductive. Well, you know how big companies are, when it’s full of unproductive employees and impacts their bottom line, then they’re really willing to do something about it. So, a lot of companies, like one of our favorite companies, ONTRAPORT provides healthy meals to their employees on a regular basis. They don’t have to go get lunch. Lunch is made available to them.
Minette Riordan: So the way as an entrepreneur to do this, is to do prep work. So, one of the things that Brad and I have noticed, and this is a productivity tip, is be prepared ahead of time. Take your snacks. Prep your food, even if you work from home, we had one of our clients, Lorraine, do a time audit. We have most of our clients do a time audit when they first start working with us. And she realized how much time she was spending every day just prepping food. And she is vegan, so she was making smoothies in the morning, cooking beautiful meals at lunch, making then food for her and her husband who’s not vegan. So I would imagine there was some different meals being made, and she realized how much time she was spending preparing food, and with a little effort, she could prepare food a few days at a time and take back a lot of that time. So she wasn’t losing her best creative times during the day to food prep.
Brad Dobson: Yeah, I think on top of that, you make a lot better choices when you’ve got that stuff pre-done for yourself. So, a lot of people do meal prep Sundays, where they’ll try and do their best to get a week’s worth of food prepared, and that type of thing.
Minette Riordan: And real food, not energy bars, and drinks, and quick off the shelf things, but take a little time. Another, actually one of our favorite business models that we followed over the years, because they have brilliant marketing is Simple Green Smoothies, and they show you how to prep a week’s worth of smoothies at a time.
Brad Dobson: Right.
Minette Riordan: And what happens when you don’t prepare, you make back choices. You get hangry. I’m married to someone who used to get really hangry, he and his sister both. But it was because they were eating the wrong foods, and they both have changed their diet to be a much more ketogenic, Whole30 type perspective.
Brad Dobson: I think it’s just important to reiterate there, from a biology perspective, and yes this is a podcast about productivity-
Minette Riordan: But we can talk about science and biology, and chemistry.
Brad Dobson: Right, but from a biological perspective, the brain is one of your biggest organs, and it takes a ton of energy. You have to feed it. I know it from my racing and triathlon. It just needs energy. Otherwise, you start making bad decisions or no decisions. It can get really ugly fast. So, you’ve gotta keep it fueled.
Minette Riordan: And current studies on the body show us, our gut is a brain basically as well, and that when all of your energy is focused on digestion, there’s no energy going to your brain. So, remember that when you’re out there doing the three martini, burger, and fries lunches, that if all your energy is in your gut, you’re not gonna be closing as many sales in the afternoon.
Brad Dobson: Yeah. You might as well just go on a siesta.
Minette Riordan: Yeah, which probably happens quite a bit more than people wanna admit. So, some of the dietary, or some of the things that can be caused by poor diet, are fatigue, like getting really tired at the end of the day. We already talked a little bit about mental effectiveness, irritability, low energy levels, reduced ability to think clearly, higher levels of stress and depression. So the chemical impact in your hormones, in your emotion centers can also be a direct result of how you’re fueling your body.
Brad Dobson: Yeah. Actually there’s good science right now, well I guess there’s been science all along, but there’s new science related to depression, bi-polar, and how it relates to diet.
Minette Riordan: Yeah, and women’s hormones, premenstrual syndrome, and how severe menstrual, what do you call them? Symptoms can be, right, like how bad is your period, can all be caused by what it is you’re eating on a regular basis.
Brad Dobson: Yeah, definitely and I would encourage you to go out there and learn what you can about it.
Minette Riordan: And migraines were another one, right, that we heard a lot about the impact of diet on migraines. And for Brad and I, personally, fortunately, we’ve been generally pretty healthy. We just weren’t productive, as productive. We didn’t have our normal levels of energy, and enthusiasm, and zest for life, and it has an impact on your business. When it’s just the two of us growing our business, we need energy. We need focus. We talked a lot about focus, talked a lot about managing energy. We did a whole podcast episode on why energy is just as important as time management, and diet is a key part of that. So, the third reason, or the third way that diet can impact your productivity, is one that Brad’s been working on a lot. It’s not one I struggle with as much.
Brad Dobson: Well, you were up in the middle of the night last night.
Minette Riordan: I was, but that’s because I had wine at dinner. I know exactly why.
Brad Dobson: It’s the diet impacts your sleep cycles, and so the diet and sleep go hand in hand, in terms of supporting each other. I would probably put sleep higher than diet on the list of things you need to get right for productivity, but diet is just a close second, and clearly, diet can impact your sleep. Caffeine in the afternoon is a tough one, right, especially for folks like me where that caffeine takes a long time to metabolize in my body. Eating the wrong food at night can just do craziness with your sleep patterns, from digestion, from mental things, stress levels, all that type of stuff.
Minette Riordan: Oh, and stress goes up when sleep goes down, and when stress goes up we make poor decisions, we eat worse foods, we’re less focused and productive at work, so it creates this crazy cycle that doesn’t allow us to be the best that we can be when it comes to building our creative businesses.
Brad Dobson: Yeah, and once again, I’m not pulling this out of a hat. There’s great science on how a poor night’s sleep screws up a couple of hormones, called ghrelin and leptin. And it’s a fact that the studies show, the day after a poor night’s sleep with those hormones out of whack, people not only eat more, they choose worse food. So, a bad night’s sleep sets you up to be hungry and ready to eat all the worst stuff the next day, and that once again turns into a vicious cycle.
Minette Riordan: You wanna talk about the Good Calories Bad Calories book for a minute?
Brad Dobson: Sure. So there’s a great, he’s actually a newspaper guy, Gary Taubes. I think he wrote The Case Against Sugar, which is maybe a little more readable, and then another one called Good Calories Bad Calories which have just fantastic information about how different types of food impact your body, your hormonal systems, you know testosterone levels, estrogen levels, leptin, ghrelin, all of the major-
Minette Riordan: And it’s a very researched thorough book. He’s a scientific journalist.
Brad Dobson: Yeah, I think a New York Times writer. Great read, not an easy read, but …
Minette Riordan: No, I know, but it’s a very informative read.
Brad Dobson: Yeah, exactly. I think the other one was a little more readable was The Case Against Sugar.
Minette Riordan: The Case Against Sugar.
Brad Dobson: I’d have to look that up. So, diet impacts sleep cycles. Caffeine, sugar, alcohol, all those things. Garlic.
Minette Riordan: Garlic for my husband? My daughter? Garlic can impact their sleep, who knew. So it may not be something that is really obvious, and this is why again, something like an elimination diet can help you figure out exactly what it is that’s creating some of the havoc. And then finally, let’s do talk about caffeine, because we’ve been having a lot of conversations about caffeine.
Brad Dobson: It’s a focus drug and I love it.
Minette Riordan: I drink a lot of it, but it doesn’t impact my sleep in the same way that it impacts yours.
Brad Dobson: Yeah. Yeah. I’m back to decaf. I started back to decaf maybe a year and a half ago, having spent a lot of my life drinking lots of caffeine, sometimes half and half decaf, whatever it is and I’ve got to the point where, even with decaf, if I’m drinking it in the afternoon it’s going to have some impact on my sleep. And I would encourage you to find out whether you’re that person or not. Don’t get me wrong, when I have a cup of coffee I know I’m more productive. So, it’s tough to give up, give it up. Because clearly it is a focus drug, but at the same time different people, like we were saying stuff about diet is unique to you.
Brad Dobson: Different people metabolize caffeine at a different rate. It has something called a half life in your body. And it can be anywhere from two hours to ten hours, so maybe your husband has a cup of coffee before he goes to bed and sleeps all night, and maybe you have a cup of coffee, one cup of coffee in the morning and you might not sleep at all. So, it’s different for everybody, but you need to understand what it does to your sleep and how it’s impacting you.
Minette Riordan: One of the articles I read talked about having a caffeine budget, which I really liked. It’s like getting to know exactly how much caffeine works for you. Brad and I love coffee. We love to go to Starbucks or Coffee Bean and have coffee, and again it’s just paying attention to what are the limits that are right for you. I can drink it later in the day than he can. I can’t drink it after five pm, or then I’m definitely up all night. So, it’s just noticing what are your limits and can you, if you like us love coffee, you can have full strength in the morning or Bullet Proof coffee in the morning, and then drink less and less throughout the day, or drink decaf after noon. And then you know, I have to say it just sucks getting older, right? Just can’t imbibe as many of the things that we used to and burn them off, right? So.
Brad Dobson: I think of it differently. I mean, yeah you could look at it that way, but I think it’s more that we’re just not willing to tolerate what it feels like the next day.
Minette Riordan: Yeah, maybe so.
Brad Dobson: Whereas we didn’t care as much before, and now we put a little more value into how we feel during the day. I definitely like that.
Minette Riordan: Oh, a lot more value. And I think because we’re working for ourselves and we’re super committed to what it is that we’re doing, and we have a lot to do with the different things going on, that our energy and our ability to manage our productivity is just more important than ever as well.
Brad Dobson: Right. I think we can take this a little bit further too is that, or this whole diet discussion a little bit further in terms of productivity. I spent a lot of my life like I said, eating poorly, having too much caffeine, too much alcohol. The inflammation in my body was always bad and I got sick more often. My immune system was compromised because I had too much stress in the wrong foods, and so I spent time being sick. Whether that’s just having colds, or the flu, or a couple times I went to the hospital, having bad allergies and lung conditions. So, all of those things came out of what I was putting into my body and the stress level that I was putting on it. And clearly I was less productive when I was sick, when I was not even at work because I was sick.
Brad Dobson: So, look at yourself. Look at how often you get sick, how long you’re sick for. I think to a certain extent, especially if you have kids, you’re always being exposed to new and wonderful things.
Minette Riordan: Oh man, when those kids go to school, it is tough. You get everything.
Brad Dobson: Yeah, and you’re gonna get sick. Well there’s a huge difference between you feeling bad for two days and knocking it out, or that cold that gets its way into your system, and sticks with you for three weeks. I mean, and that’s just a matter of fact type of thing. You know, the level if health you’re at, the level of health your immune system is at, your resiliency, is all defined by your stress levels and the types of things you put into your body, and whether your body likes the things that you’re putting into it.
Minette Riordan: And I’ll be the first one to admit, I’m really good at pushing through even when I’m tired and stressed and fueling myself with coffee to get over that last hump and get a project done or completed. Especially trying to balance being in the road, traveling to speak or go to workshops, with being home in the office and getting work done. I forget how much rest I actually need as well, and so Brad is really good at reminding me that I need rest. And again, all of these things are connected. I can’t do what I do if I’m eating badly on top of that. Then I just kind of fall apart, and it does all kinds of weird things to you.
Minette Riordan: I mean, even in my fifties, my face will still break out if I eat a bunch of chocolate, or a bunch of dairy. And I don’t wanna be the 53 year old entrepreneur on stage with acne. That’s just my personal choice, maybe it doesn’t bother other people, but it bugs me and so it’s just that paying attention, knowing that if I’m gonna go get up on stage, I gotta be really careful what I’m eating the night before or I have puffy eyes. I don’t look my best, and I certainly don’t feel my best. So, there’s so many ways where what you’re taking in impacts, not just your productivity but your success and your fulfillment in your business overall.
Brad Dobson: I couldn’t have said it better.
Minette Riordan: Yay.
Brad Dobson: Cool stuff. What are we asking people to do here with the Facebook group?
Minette Riordan: Yeah, so we would love for you guys to come, take this conversation a little bit further, a little bit deeper. Tell us what episodes you’re enjoying. Ask us questions in the Productivity for Creative Business Owners Facebook Group. This is a totally free, no sales pitch, no nothing. Just a place to have a deeper conversation around productivity as a creative. What’s working, what’s not. I’ll be sharing, I’m getting ready to do a deep dive. If you remember when we started this podcast, we talked about the Nine Pillars of Productivity. So, I’m gonna start taking that a little deeper into our productivity styles. But come tell us, what are your thoughts about diet and productivity? Do you think we’re crazy and you’re just gonna keep eating donuts for breakfast because it works for you? Come and tell us.
Brad Dobson: Oh, donuts. I love donuts.
Minette Riordan: We wanna hear from you guys. And as always, we so, so appreciate it when you take a moment to leave us some love on iTunes. It’s one of the ways we can get this podcast out to the people who really need it, and who would enjoy our silliness. I had someone else the other day say how fun we are together. So if you’re enjoying the fun and the silly, and the humor, then please, please, please leave us some love on iTunes. It would mean the world to us.
Brad Dobson: And what was that Facebook group again?
Minette Riordan: It’s Productivity for Creative Business Owners. We’ll have a direct link in the show notes as well, and next week, we’re gonna talk about another one of your favorite topics.
Brad Dobson: Ooh, the connection between exercise and productivity. I know you’re gonna like that. You all love going to the gym, don’t you? And running?
Minette Riordan: No.
Brad Dobson: And cycling?
Minette Riordan: No.
Brad Dobson: Swimming?
Minette Riordan: No.
Brad Dobson: All those things?
Minette Riordan: No. We’re not all iron men.
Brad Dobson: Oh, come on. Everybody loves that.
Minette Riordan: No, but we all need movement, right?
Brad Dobson: We sure do.
Minette Riordan: So we’re gonna talk about the ways that we’ve been able to incorporate more exercise and movement into our schedules. How we’ve struggled with that, when there hasn’t been an iron man out in front of us, or some other fitness goal. So, we’re gonna talk about again, today we talked about diet, we talked about mindfulness. We’re continuing our conversation around what are your personal habits that you could be making just small tweaks to, to improve your productivity at work.
Brad Dobson: Good stuff.
Minette Riordan: We’ll see you next week.
Brad Dobson: Thanks for listening to Structure and Flow. The productivity podcast for creative entrepreneurs. To find out more about this episode and others, go to pathtoprofitacademy.com and click on the podcast link.
